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David Mc Donald's avatar

(Thank you for this reply. I will make some brief comments here and I may reply in more depth in a post. Although my post was mainly directed at the form of no self thougth by radical online non duality teachers (Pretty low hanging fruit, I know) I still have major issues with what your arguing for as well. I still think its riddled with pre assumed axiomatic assumptions that allow for no self to sound plausable.

Firstly, a brief point from a cognitive science perspective. The ancient Buddhist taxonomy of the things like the  six sense doors and the five aggregates are thoroughly inadequate. It artificially dichotomizes the senses, and so can’t handle synaesthesia and complex forms of cross-modal integration. It doesn’t properly describe interoception, proprioception, and kinaesthesia. It also doesn’t distinguish between all the varieties of mental processes (mental attention, working memory, metacognition, etc.) Its an ancient way of artificially breaking up the mind, and its pre assumed. You are going to have to first of all defend the validity of the 6 sense doors and aggregates. To me, they are outdated assumptions that don’t and cant account for the above. pre-scientific taxonomies like this have a lot of issues. But, science alone cannot answer this question, I will admit. That’s where we will have to resort to philosophical lines of reasoning.

If I take a philosophical angle (Aristotle, Aquinas) I still hold that Mental states are attributes, and attributes cannot be identified or individuated except by reference to a substance in which they inhere. (And this does not contradict cognitive science, nore is it at odds with it) There is no way to identify the relevant causal relations between mental states without reference to a self. The self is real and irreducible which  entails that it is a substance that persists through changes of its attributes and cannot coherently be identified with the collection of attributes themselves. Edward Feser defined it as “The substance—a unified, immaterial, rational soul—which underlies, unifies, and endures through the various psychological states, bodily changes, and experiences of a human person”

Permanence and independence are also not the essential criteria for selfhood. what defines the self is that it is a metaphysical subject, the locus in which mental events inhere, and which gives them unity and ownership. Even if coherence and substance are impermanent, they are still features that require grounding. To deny their grounding is not to refute the self but to destroy the intelligibility of experience itself:

Non-self doesn’t deny a “percipient”??? But if that’s the case then you  must answer: what is the percipient? What is this “not-self” that nonetheless perceives? Its like youre  trying to keep music while denying vibration. I see this as absolutely insurmountable and impossible to get around, so I am looking forward to your response.

If no experience can yield a self, then the very act of evaluating experience for selfhood becomes unintelligible. Who is the evaluator? Who is performing this epistemic abstention? I have found all answers to this question form a Buddhist perspective to be circular, or they in some way smuggle in a self.

From an Advaita perspective, If you’re analyzing and negating each aggregate in turn, you're relying on a continuity of awareness across time. But that continuity isn’t in the aggregates, it’s what binds them. You can't deconstruct a rope by inspecting and discarding its threads while still holding the rope.

The very act of disidentification presupposes a unified subject of experience. Its also a textbook category error, confusing the attributes of a thing with the thing itself(As mentioned above). As Edward Feser argued in his book on the nature of persons  “changeability in attributes doesn’t imply the nonexistence of the subject that possesses them.

Your argument also assumes that selfhood would require omnipotent control. But no serious philosophical tradition—not Aristotelian, not Cartesian, not even most forms of Vedānta, claims that the self, as such, entails sovereign power over all aspects of its condition. Agency doesn’t require omnipotence; it requires unity, intention, and continuity. And that is a pretty deep conversation in and of itself, control and free will. It would end up being an entire discussion in itself.

“Attributes cannot be identified or individuated apart from the substance in which they inhere… identifying the bundles by reference to the individual mental states, and identifying the individual mental states by reference to the bundles of which they are members, would only yield a viciously circular “ explanation

That’s something to chew on for now 😊

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